Listen to “Learn the 5 Layers of Your Sexual Self (special guest Coach Adrian)” on Spreaker.
Read an Edited Transcript of the Show:
Craig Perra:
Welcome, brothers and sisters. You are listening to Sex Afflictions and Porn Addictions, and I am your host Craig Perra from www.themindfulhabit.com. I’m the founder of The Mindful Habit system and my life of colossal failures and sex addiction and porn addiction and multiple mental health issues has brought me here. Proud to run the world’s only at home comprehensive treatment program for men who are struggling and, and, and, and we provide powerful support for your life. So if you need intensive help, go visit www.themindfulhabit.com. And I’m really excited about our topic today. It’s a complicated topic today. And you’ve heard me, if you’re listening to this podcast, you have heard me say repeatedly, the sex is the symptom. You have heard me say, I have never worked with a client whose primary problem had anything to do with sex. Okay?
That does not mean that there are not sexual issues. And we’re going to talk about those sexual issues today. And I’m very excited. What we’re going to talk about, in a second, Adrian’s going to correct my pronunciation. I’m just going to say it wrong for purposes of this introduction. Martin Seligman’s five layers of sexuality. But I want to introduce my special guest. If you’re a fan of this podcast, you know him already, our resident expert, our counselor, a master’s in clinical psychology, recovery coach. He’s currently getting trained as a certified psychosexualist. That is a very, very comprehensive certification. Oh, my God. It requires graduate level training, it requires a degree in psychology. I am so, so blessed to have Adrian on my team. Certified in the Mindful Habit System, my best friend, former client, Adrian Stroybn. Welcome to the program, my friend.
Adrian Stroybn:
Welcome, Craig. Thank you for having me.
Craig Perra:
Now, did I butcher both names wrong?
Adrian Stroybn:
No, just the last one.
Craig Perra:
Oh, god. I have a disorder in pronunciation, man. I have known this brother for so long. Forget it. I’m never going to get it right, man. Yes, I will. I promise. So we’re talking about Martin Seligman’s five layers of sexuality. Tell me why this is important.
Adrian Stroybn:
Well, it is important because usually we focus just on the surface level things, like our sexual behaviors and especially you have struggles in that area, our sexual struggles, right? But actually, sexuality is much more complex. And just like the onion, it has layers. Right? And when you go to the core of the sexuality, you can actually understand your sexual behaviors much better and resolve them. So if you go to those deeper layers, it can help you to actually find the right resolution to the sexual dysfunctions or out of control sexual behaviors that you’re dealing with. And I think that, basically, for every human being, it is an important knowledge to have so we can understand our sexuality and express our sexuality in a healthy way.
Craig Perra:
Sexuality is such a powerful and important part of our lives, and information is power. And a lot of people come to this podcast having spent considerable time, energy and focus, listen, trying to be better, but using the sex addiction model to help them get there. And I propose that that model lacks the, well the American Society for Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists says that that model lacks this sophistication that we’re going to talk about today. And so let’s start out with that first layer. Tell me what that is, Adrian.
Adrian Stroybn:
All right. So there are five layers of sexuality, and we’re going to obviously start from the first one, which is the layer that is the most biologically, I would say, influenced. And that layer is called sexual identity. So our sexual identity is our understanding of who we are sexually, whether we are a man or a woman, or we are non-binary, for example. All those times relate to sexual identity and how we understand ourselves in terms of gender, for example.
Craig Perra:
And so this would be in the category of someone who is trans. So someone who listening to this podcast and unfamiliar, someone who’s trans, that person struggles with their sexual identity. Is that correct?
Adrian Stroybn:
Well, I would say that we all have sexual identity and people who are born in the biological body or form that doesn’t reflect their sexual identity have something that is called gender dysphoria. And some of those people define themselves as trans, Yes.
Craig Perra:
Yes. Okay, wow. Thank you, thank you. What a far more sophisticated answer. And it is believed that gender identity is fixed, correct? And not a matter of human choice. I thought that was interesting to read.
Adrian Stroybn:
Yes. According to Seligman, those layers are impacted by biology and by the environment in different ways. So the deepest layers, and the first one is the deepest layer, are affected by biology far more than the outer layers, so to speak. And sexual identity, according to Seligman, is something that is quite stable throughout the life and is biologically shaped. So we don’t have a choice regarding our sexual identity, we just have it and can recognize it at some point of our life.
Craig Perra:
And this is a issue far beyond my expertise. What I would like to share, though, in relation to sexual identity is that I and a lot of our clients have fetishized people who have gender dysmorphic disorder. And if that’s you, I just really want to just take this space, and it was something that I had to reflect on. These are human beings and these are human beings who are struggling. They tend to be disenfranchised, it’s hard to get the help that they need. And if you’re looking at that kind of pornography, I just hope to humanize that these are people. These are people who are struggling with a serious condition and they need our empathy and compassion. Do you have anything else to add to that, Adrian?
Adrian Stroybn:
Sure. I think that just like nobody wants to be objectified, trans people don’t want to be objectified as well and to become a fetish or I would say, an exotic addition to your sex life. They want to be treated as human beings just like everybody else and not as some object. So that’s important when you’re working on healing your sexuality, is to start treating people as people with their history. There may be complexities as well, and to not treat them just as your sexual fantasy or sexual object or fetish. And what’s different from what we usually see and what we usually experience, what is exotic becomes erotic. That’s part of my sexoligical training there was that rule, what is exotic becomes erotic. And we very often treat things that are different as exotic and they become eroticized and that can lead to harm, I would say, for anybody involved.
Craig Perra:
Yeah. And what brought me personally down that path was my own struggles and questions with the next category. What is the next layer, if you will?
Adrian Stroybn:
So the next layer is sexual orientation, and that relates to whether we are attracted sexually, and some people would say also romantically, to opposite sex or same sex. What is our sexual, I would say, sexual focus on?
Craig Perra:
What turns us on. On one side of the spectrum, we have heterosexuality and then the other side is homosexuality. Is that fair?
Adrian Stroybn:
Right, right. And also there is bisexuality in the middle and asexuality as another, I would say, sexual orientation. This relates to people who don’t focus sexually on anybody or they are not attracted sexually to other people, regardless of their sex or gender. And so there is also something that’s called, I think, which can be interesting in our case, autoerotic sexuality, which is a sexual orientation where a person relates sexually only with themselves.
Craig Perra:
Wow. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. And this is an area where we do have men in the program who are, for example, they may be in a heterosexual marriage and they’re watching gay porn or they’re hooking up with guys and that’s a that’s a deep, dark secret. There’s a lot of people in that category. What do you say, Adrian, to those folks who are struggling with this aspect of themselves, their sexual orientation?
Adrian Stroybn:
Well, I think it’s a very complex topic, of course, but I think understanding that sexuality is on the spectrum and most of us are all somewhere in between homosexuality and heterosexuality. I think that can really help with accepting those tendencies and maybe accepting yourself and your sexual orientation a little bit more so it doesn’t have to be a secret anymore and you can live more authentically. There are people who are homosexual also who are in heterosexual relationships or they are having heterosexual sex. But if you’re primarily interested in same sex and you’re primarily fantasizing about same sex, then there is a big chance that your sexual orientation is homosexual regardless of your sexual activity.
That layer really relates to what turns us on, like you said, and what kind of gender, what kind of person you really get attracted to, regardless of whether we’re having sex with that person or whether we are in relation with that person or not. So I think for those guys, the thing that I want to share is accept yourself. If you have bisexual tendencies or homosexual tendencies, remember that this is part of human sexuality. Diversity is part of nature and we are also part of nature. And it’s important to understand yourself and see if you can function in the current relationship without neglecting that part of yourself, or maybe you have to switch the lifestyle basically to a bit different. And that’s a huge challenge and I acknowledge that, that it’s a huge challenge to change the way you are living. But that’s a realization that some men, not a very big percentage, but some men come to during their sexual healing journey.
Craig Perra:
I remember, Adrian, when I was at my lowest point, I am hooking up with men, I’m hooking up with women, my affair with a trans person exploded, ruptured, I got fired from my job. I ended up in a three day inpatient facility because I was a danger to myself. Really, really, really dark time. And I’ll never forget something my cousin said to me. My cousin, like a brother to me, we grew up together and I remember him saying, “Hey cuz, I’m doing really well. I’ve figured out a lot about myself and I’m definitely not gay.” He says, “Okay, fine. That’s good to know.” And then I said, “I’m definitely not bi.” He goes, “Hold up, hold up, hold up.” He goes, “Craig,” and I’m going to be a little blunt here, guys, he says, “Craig, you sucked a dick. That’s bi. That’s bi.” This was better than any therapy I’ve ever gotten in my life.
And I was like, “What am I so afraid of? What am I so afraid of? I’m so repelled by that label and there’s value in accepting what is and knowing who you are, then you can choose, if you have the power to choose, then you can choose.” It was a very powerful moment for me, and I know that there are a lot of brothers out there listening who are struggling with this. And if you are resistant to that word, I invite you to take a long, hard look in the mirror. And bisexual has a thought component to it. And if you’re doing it, then there’s a good chance that you might fall into that category, that what you resist persists. Anything to add to that before we move on to the next one, Adrian?
Adrian Stroybn:
Very important thing to mention is that just like the first layer that we mentioned, this layer is also impacted mainly by our biology, genes and hormones when we are in the womb, for example and when we are just shaping our body as a little child. So it’s usually something that’s not changing that much during in life and it’s something that shouldn’t be also fixed or treated. And the World Health Organization removed homosexuality and bisexuality from the manual for disorders, DSM, and ICD. It’s not there anymore. So if you ever come across somebody that’s telling you that you should heal yourself and change your sexual orientation, then know that it’s not possible and it’s not healthy. It’s very important.
Craig Perra:
Then you are in the wrong place. You are in the wrong place. You are getting bad advice.
Adrian Stroybn:
Yes, acceptance and embracing it, I think is the best way to go.
Craig Perra:
It is negligent, it is unprofessional and it is illegal, in some states they have banned conversion therapy. Guys, you know why? Because people are blowing their fucking brains out. Excuse my bluntness. Excuse my bluntness, but God, when I get somebody coming to me whose homosexuality is being treated as a sex addiction, I want to explode. That poor, poor, poor person. That poor, poor, poor person is reaching out to professionals. Now, I will say this. There are some people, Adrian, you know this right, who call that professional who tells them the right thing to click, “I don’t want that advice. I want someone who tells me that I can change.”
Adrian Stroybn:
Right. But despite of hearing that the change doesn’t happen and that’s been proven over the years, the conversion therapy, it’s existing, I would say, for at least 50 years now. And there are no real scientific results of that other than more trauma, more shame, more hiding.
Craig Perra:
Suicide, more mental illness, more distress, more anxiety. Think about this, guys. There’s legislatures who, as a legislative body, aren’t sympathetic to gay rights. Yet, conversion therapy is banned. It’s that bad. It’s that bad.
Adrian Stroybn:
Right, exactly.
Craig Perra:
It deserves to be banned.
Adrian Stroybn:
Deserves, definitely. I agree with that totally and that’s why here we’re taking a different perspective. And if you notice that you are having thoughts about having sex with same sex people, then try to look at it as not something scary, but a matter of your maybe exploration, maybe you’re finding out something about yourself that can actually enrich your life or maybe you have to change the way you’re functioning a little bit in order to function better. Whenever those realizations come out, I think it’s always an opportunity for healing and not for more self-hatred and more shame.
Craig Perra:
Remember brothers, that what you resist persists. That what you resist persists. So listen, we could talk for hours on each one of those. What’s next?
Adrian Stroybn:
The next is sexual preferences. And I think that’s very interesting also for many guys who are trying to recover from out of control sexual behaviors or compulsive sexual behaviors, because very often we are preferring something that we don’t have. Right? And especially, if you’re watching a lot of porn, you may start to develop a taste for a certain type of women or a certain type of sex. And this is what sexual preference is all about. It’s the shapes that you like in people, the looks, the body parts that you enjoy the most, the type of maybe angles or the scenes or the type of sex that you enjoy the most.
So it’s a bit different from orientation because it’s not about the gender of a person that you’re attracted to, but more about how this person looks like and how the activity looks like. So in terms of preferences, you may prefer people who are more petite or more curvy, for example. You might prefer a certain position over the other. And this is another thing that we need to recognize in ourselves, and I hope, embrace in a healthy way in our life, because if you don’t do that, then what you end up doing is instead of having amazing sex life, you’re going to porn.
And instead of expressing your deepest desires with your partner, you’re using porn as an outlet. And so many guys that we are talking with, so many of who we are working with, are having preferences that they are not really embracing in their lives or that maybe some of them maybe are not very realistic as well. That’s an issue, too, because porn shaped them. But there is a lot of stuff that I think we are not embracing because we feel ashamed of our sexuality. So it’s good to say, “Well, this is what I like in sex. This is type of a person that I enjoy the most.” It doesn’t mean that you can’t enjoy other types of body figure or that you can’t enjoy other positions or that you can’t enjoy maybe other types of sexual activity. But recognizing what you like is important for recognizing what you don’t like and creating really good sex life. And I think really good sex life is important for winning with this compulsive sexual disorder.
Craig Perra:
Yeah. Sexual health is mental health. Sexual health is physical health. And porn can really more manipulate that preference, can’t it?
Adrian Stroybn:
Yeah, it can. But the problem is that once it morphs the preference, of course, to a certain degree, because this is the third layer. So to a certain degree, we can change it. Right? To a certain degree. But most of that study is still quite biological. So once you have that preference, it’s hard to get rid of it. What we can do is to maybe broaden our preferences so they will include also our partner and their body type or the sex that we’re having with the partner.
Craig Perra:
Grow in strength in one area while channeling and directing those preferences towards your partner, towards love, towards connection, towards a great sex life, right?
Adrian Stroybn:
Yeah. But the fetishes also are here. And what’s important for guys who have fetishes is that probably you’re not going to get rid of your fetish. So you have to learn how to maybe embrace it in your relationship or talk with your partner if that can become part of your fantasy life, for example. But without secrets. And if you can open up about your fetishes, very often it leads to tremendous healing and the symptoms of acting out, compulsive sexual behaviors, disappear. I know so many guys who have fetishes and they don’t want to tell about them. They don’t want to speak about them, and that’s why they keep acting up.
Craig Perra:
That shame is fueling that compulsive behavior. And being honest with your partner is a very difficult thing and a brave and courageous thing, because fetishes can’t be eradicated and erased, they must be channeled and directed. Fair?
Adrian Stroybn:
Yes, exactly. Fair. I will say. Treating somebody who’s struggling with fetishes that are not socially acceptable is a bit, I would say, complex. I’m not going to explain all the details here on the podcast because that’s not what the podcast is for. But I just want guys who are having foot fetishes or maybe other types of fetishes, I want them to know that you don’t have to hide your fetishes. You can learn how to live with them. You can experience them in a healthy way with your partner, most of those fetishes at least. And there are people who are trained in healing and helping with those kind of issues, if your fetish is not socially acceptable, for example.
Craig Perra:
Yeah. A great book that I’ve referred to many clients, is a book written by Galen Fous, Decoding Your Kink. So anyway, just want to share that plug. I’ve had him on the podcast before. Great man and a great source of resources. OK, let’s go. Again, lots we could talk about. But what we’re doing here, guys, is providing you the outline, the overview, hopefully to enhance your knowledge regarding these five layers of sexuality. What’s next?
Adrian Stroybn:
So now we’re switching to a layer that’s defined much more by environment and learning than biology, and that’s social role. The layer is called social role. And our social role is mainly shaped by our experiences. When we are growing up as a boy or a girl, you are taught what are the right ways to behave, for example, how boys should express themselves, how girls should express themselves. Then, later on when they’re growing up and maybe hit puberty, there are certain behaviors that are accepted from boys that maybe aren’t accepted from girls in the society. So the society, the parents, the experiences that we are having, all of them are shaping our sexual role. And I think that can be quite limiting actually sometimes, especially the roles that I hear from men so often is guys shouldn’t cry, right? Guys shouldn’t show feelings. Guys should always be tough. Guys should always have an erection.
Craig Perra:
Stop being a pussy.
Adrian Stroybn:
Right. Guys should always want sex and have erections all the time. And so all those myths and expectations and beliefs are shaping our idea of who the modern man is or who the modern female is. Sometimes that’s quite limiting and that also affects sexuality a lot. I heard so many men having erectile dysfunction or turning to porn because they feel they really can’t perform better, they can’t satisfy their partner or they feel emasculated because they are not acting in a certain way or they are feeling vulnerable and they don’t want to show their feelings to their partner, and that creates disconnection. That all comes from social role and the way we understood masculinity in the past.
But I think that it’s important to recognize that we are all human and despite embracing aspects of our social role, I think we can pick and choose. We don’t have to stick to what we learned in the past. We can take some things from what we learned from our parents, from society, from experiences, and we can also maybe shift some parts. For myself especially, that was a huge thing because I always felt that I’m not really fitting to the traditional idea of male, especially in Poland. I was growing up in 90s and in 90s, we pretty much still had macho culture in Poland. So the guys should be big and tough and fight a lot and drink a lot.
Craig Perra:
Drink vodka.
Adrian Stroybn:
Yeah, drink vodka.
Craig Perra:
Drink a lot, party.
Adrian Stroybn:
Yes, party a lot and be interested in football and in girls and that’s all, right? And I was always a romantic. I liked writing poems. I was interested in books and I was also practicing martial arts and things like that. But I had this really, I would say, sensitive aspect.
Craig Perra:
This other side, right?
Adrian Stroybn:
Yeah.
Craig Perra:
This side that you had really maybe rejected or disowned, certainly didn’t embrace. And I think a big part of your journey for both of us has been embracing that part.
Adrian Stroybn:
Yeah, exactly, I didn’t want to have those feelings so I was numbing myself by watching porn. I didn’t want to be seen as soft, so I was numbing myself to look tough. When you don’t feel anything, then you can always be tough, right? But you get rid of good things from your life as well. So porn became a pacifier for myself and acting out became a pacifier so I don’t feel my sensitivity and I don’t get in touch with that emotional side of myself.
But thanks to Craig and thanks to my healing journey, I recognized that this is a power, that sensitivity is a power that I can embrace, that I can shape my own view of what masculinity is, and I can be a leader and a strong person, maybe even more because I am emotional, because I can connect with others, I can understand their feelings, I can be romantic from time to time. Women never rejected that side of me, but I was rejecting that. That was not my idea of who the guy should be, right? So if you are guys struggling with that, you want to always look manly and tough and you’re using sex to really reinforce that, maybe there’s time to start shifting your idea of what masculinity is. And same for women as well, who have limiting beliefs around your role.
Craig Perra:
I don’t think I’d be authentic if I didn’t share at least one aspect of my journey growing up in a masculine culture, sports and feelings were for fairies, feelings were feminized. And I’m going to use some terms that are intentionally offensive, “Stop being gay. Stop being a faggot. Stop being a pussy.” Because there were things that I liked. I liked art, I liked theater. I liked things that weren’t traditionally masculine. And if we’re going to define masculine as being brave and being courageous, then feeling and connecting with that part of yourself and me owning that I love to watch My Little Pony and I don’t care who knows it, it’s my trauma medicine.
It helps me emotionally and physically regulate. At the end of the day, it’s that 20 minutes that I go to the discharge, it brings me such great value. It’s kind of my, almost a rebellion against the repression of that sexual role that we were trained to play. Listen, I’m not telling you, you need to like that. That’s not what we’re saying at all. We’re saying that there is likely an aspect of you that you have rejected and disowned to your detriment.
Adrian Stroybn:
Yes, yes because of that-
Craig Perra:
Programming.
Adrian Stroybn:
Yes. Programming and the roles that we’ve learned around sex and gender. So that’s another layer that we really need to understand and uncover. And I think that can change a lot of unhealthy dynamics in relationships and in sexual life, if you can really uncover what is the belief system you have around masculinity and femininity and roles of men and women in relationships.
And the next layer, I think we can go to the next layer, is the last one, which is called sexual realization, or I would like to name it maybe sexual expression. So those are the behaviors that you are showing in your life. Those are the things that you’re doing with your partner, with somebody else, with yourself, that are sexual or erotic in nature. And part of that can be fantasies, part of that can be masturbation, part of that can be having sex with somebody. It can be touching, kissing, all of those different things that we understand as sexual are part of sexual expression.
And this is where, I would say, most of the symptoms that we can observe, like we see that we are masturbating every single day instead of having sex with the partner, or we see that we are reaching out and having sex with other women instead of focusing on wife, for example, or we see that we don’t want to have any kind of sex. We’re not interested in sex at all. And all of those things are part of your sexual expression. So we’re looking at, what exactly is my sexual expression? How am I acting? What am I doing to avoid having intimate sexual connection with my partner on a daily and weekly basis? What am I doing to actually express myself sexually, in a healthy way? What amount of focus and energy goes towards really building healthy sexual expression? All of those things are crucial in recovery.
So we are all starting from there, from observing how you express yourself sexually. And then you can see that, “I don’t understand why I have this sexual expression. So maybe I have to dig deeper and see the other layers of the onion.” And that’s how the journey starts always. So the sexual realization, the most fortunate thing about it is, just like sexual role, it is created and shaped by experiences, by environment and by ourselves. So that’s the part, the layer, that can be modified than most. Pretty much, humans can pretty much modify almost in any way. Sexual expression can be modified almost in any way. So you can choose to not have any kind of sexual activity, you can choose to have sexual activity with a person that you’re not attracted to, you can choose to have sexual activity with a person that you are attracted to. We have plenty of choices here, but not all of them are healthy and leading to happiness. So ask yourself what choices you are making in terms of sexual expression and are they really leading you to more happiness and growth.
Craig Perra:
And what I love about this is that there’s such a great question and it’s so easy. It’s so easy, in that, is this healthy or is it unhealthy? Is this healthy? Is it unhealthy? And is this adding value to my life? Is just making me feel better about myself? If I’m in a relationship, am I embracing the reality that my sexual energy has power and biology says it’s got to go somewhere and you’re choosing to direct it towards your partner. And if it’s not moving in that direction, addressing those issues and understanding why and what are the barriers and what are the impediments to it moving in that direction. It’s why I often say we treat intimacy disorders because we as men, we’re trained, we’re pretty banged up. We’re pretty banged up and sometimes, at least in our world, Adrian, it takes a crisis. It takes a discovery. Someone getting caught to embark upon this life changing journey where they learn why they’re doing what they’re doing.
They’re learning who they are in the process and learning how to direct and channel that energy in a healthy, constructive way, in a way that adds value to your life. And it’s such a privilege, such a privilege to be at that low point for somebody and say, “Hey, listen, this sucks and, this is going to sound crazy, but you’re going to look back on it and say thank God this happened.” Thank God this happened because I’ve used it to change my life in so many ways. I’m proud of the man that I’ve become. I’m proud of the man that I’ve become.
Adrian Stroybn:
Yeah. I think that really relates to that sexual role that we talked about, that men have to go through crises to reach out for help because we believe we should do everything on our own.
Craig Perra:
We don’t even ask for directions when we’re lost.
Adrian Stroybn:
Yeah, right, exactly. Exactly. So having that support from net, having other people that you connect with and that you can reach out to is extremely important for emotional and mental health. So because of that sexual role that we have or gender role that we’re having, that we shouldn’t reach out for help, it takes a crisis for us to really smack us in the face and say, “Well, I have to do something about it.” Right? So I think that’s really connects with what we are talking about here. And if you want to understand yourself deeply, then look at those five layers and try to define them for yourself. You’re going to have a lot of really powerful realizations. And of course, if you have something that troubles you, remember that you can reach out to our team, can reach out to me and ask questions, maybe by using the email that I’m going to add in the description.
Craig Perra:
Yeah, yeah. Well, we’re going to put that in the description for you to reach out to Adrian. One way to connect with Adrian is through our group coaching program. So if you are struggling, if you do need help, if you are in that crisis point where, listen, I hope this inspires you to get the help you need before it hits that crisis point, but if you do need support at that low point, Adrian and me and George and Sandy, who helps the partners along with my incredible wife, Michelle, we’ve got a great team to help you. And that’s our group coaching program. So any closing thoughts, Adrian?
Adrian Stroybn:
Well, I’m very thankful that we could have this conversation and I am thinking that just if you notice something that doesn’t really fit your understanding of your sexuality. Remember that this is a very complex topic and we covered just one perspective, one theory that’s really trying to put a structure to our sexuality and divide it into those five layers. Right? So we were talking about sexuality, According to Seligman. You may have a bit of a different understanding and if you have that, then please share it in the comments, we’re happy to look at it and respond.
Craig Perra:
Yeah, yeah. If you’re watching this on YouTube, ask your questions in the comment. I’ll make sure that those get to Adrian so he can answer them. Obviously, some comments should only be responded to by your professional counselor and therapist. So there are limitations to the free advice that we can give because we only really should be giving advice to clients. That’s the responsible thing to do. But we can point you in the right direction and answer some general questions and direct you to some resources.
So this is Sex Afflictions and Porn Addictions. I am your host, Craig Perra. Truly an honor and a privilege to have Adrian on my team, have Adrian in my life. I hope he knows how important he is to me. I don’t have many friends and I feel so blessed and privileged to call him a brother. So thank you, Adrian, for all your great work. Not just helping me, being there for me and and being there for our clients. So I’m so glad that we’ve got you on this team. And man, when you think, like that time when you call, I sometimes think about that. I’m like, this guy from Poland won’t leave me alone and he is so goddamn persistent. And I said, “You know what, this is a scholarship case.” And who knew? Who knew? We’re getting ready to fly out to your wedding next year. And God, we’ve been working together what, six years now?
Adrian Stroybn:
Yeah, more I would say.
Craig Perra:
More. Seven?
Adrian Stroybn:
I started in 2012, my recovery. And I started being a coach, I think somewhere in 2013. So that’s a lot of time.
Craig Perra:
Wow, wow. What a journey, man. What a journey. I’m so glad that you’re on it with me. Thank you everybody for listening. If you do need more help, get it. Doesn’t have to be with us, but get the help that you need to be your best self. Life is too short to suck. Bye everybody.
